The Depravity of Man

11 04 2007

The continuation of this post…
If man is not inherently good, then we are left with two choices. Either he is merely a random organism that does everything by instinct, or he is the opposite of good. He is bad. Both are unpleasant thoughts to consider, though, in my opinion, the former is infinitely more unpleasant an idea than the latter.

The former, it seems obvious, does not make sense. Humans clearly have the ability to make critical choices that are anything but primitive and instinctual. A prime example of this is seen in economics. If it was merely a matter of instinct, it would seem that everyone would take the same direction in the handling of their money. Yet they, if they live under any sort of a modicum of free market, and some even if they don’t, will make various decisions based on a conscious thought process wherein they believe that they will succeed over others. Sure, it’s part of a survival instinct, but it requires constant, changing decisions to continue going. Contrast this with the animal world, where everything is instinctual. In many various herds, tribes, etc. of animals, whichever animal is the leader gets unquestioned loyalty and makes the decisions regarding economy, i.e. where to go, what to store up, what to eat, etc. It only makes sense to follow the leader because there is no other course of action to take. The leader is not determined by wisdom, but generally by the ability to fight off others and be the strongest. Everything in the animal world is ruled by whatever is instinctual, which in this case is follow the strongest. A human on the other hand, might not do always follow the strongest if they got the idea that they could survive better by doing something else.

So we are left with one option, and that is that man is inherently evil. We are forced to recognize this by both process of elimination and the obvious evidence all around us. Everyone has done something wrong (a.k.a. sinned, unethical) in their life. No realistic argument can be made for the absence of absolutes, seeing as how that very premise shoots itself down by its own assertion, so everyone admits that there is wrong in the world. Now, to say that man is inherently evil is not to say that all people are bad people, but is merely to say that all people have the propensity to do wrong at one point or another. Now, various people disagree on what is wrong and what is right. I base what I believe to be wrong and right on what the Bible, God’s written Word, says. Others base it on what their holy book might say. Those who subscribe to humanism base it on what they think is instinct, but what is in reality their conscience. (That claim will be discussed in a later post.) To say that simply because one has not committed murder or another serious crime that one has not done wrong is absurd. No one thinking reasonably is going to say that stealing or cheating, even small amounts, is right. They may say it, but deep down on the inside they have to find some way to justify it because it just doesn’t feel good or right.

In the previous post, I gave the example of a two year-old throwing a temper-tantrum, and no one having to teach him how, as example of man’s sin nature. While man has an innate sense of good and bad that animals obviously do not have, this alone will not keep him from doing wrong. Anyone who has a child knows this, and I daresay that anyone who is willing to look in a proverbial mirror will admit it.

I am forced to conclude, based on both observational and conditional evidence, that man is evil. A dismal outlook it leaves us with. It also begs another question. How did we get to be that way? How did we get the sense of good and bad within us that other organism apparently do not have? These will be addressed in a later post, so don’t touch that remote…


Actions

Information

2 responses to “The Depravity of Man”

11 04 2007
totaltransformation (11:42:26) :

If you study the history of almost any group of people long enough (and it won’t take long) you will find depravity and violence enough to turn your stomach. I mean, think of those poor Tibetans that peace protesters love so much. If only they knew how Tibetan monks lived on the backs of the peasants- whom the ruled with an iron fist. They were rather harsh masters who weren’t shy to enforce near barbaric punishments for crimes and misdemeanors. That is only one example.

I am currently reading a book on the 1741 New York slave revolt. Of the slaves convicted of conspiracy, those who received a simple hanging seemed blessed compared to those endured such punishments as being burned alive or gibbeted (cut open). When done some heads and bodies were left on poles for all to see.

Man is evil at his core. As Madison said, If men were angels we wouldn’t need government.

11 01 2008
Cpt_Starfox (11:06:00) :

Man is not inherently good. To this I agree.
This is true by history as WaF and TT have presented…
This is true by modern experience with children as WaF again presented…
This is true by modern statistics as Neil presented…
But this is also true by the Bible (even if some do not believe the Bible).

I guess this post of mine is mostly for those who follow the Bible…. WaF’s post uses good ole “observational and conditional evidence” which I like… but for those claiming Christianity and claiming to follow the Bible… and believe that man is “inherently good”… let’s see what the Bible says.

Romans 7:8-10
“But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.”

What is Paul saying? He is saying that when he was born and while he was a small child, he didn’t know right from wrong and so was innocent being incapable of truly understanding right from wrong and his need for a savior.

So man is born and begins innocent! Does this make man “inherently good”? No, it means man begins out without knowledge of right and wrong and not knowing that they need a savior. Also, This doesn’t make man inherently good because what happened when Paul “came to the knowledge of good and evil” (knew right from wrong)? As he says: “For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.”

Sin revived and he died… He followed sin and spiritually died in it! It is at this time that he needed to be born again! His spirit which was once alive unto God while he was innocent (”I was alive without the law once” ;) had died unto God when Paul learned right from wrong (”when the commandment came”)… the fellowship between God and Paul was broken. Paul was separated from God by his sin. To fix this God has prescribed a rebirth! Born the first time innocent… came to know right from wrong, but failed in living righteously and so needed to be born again the second time. (at which point we accept Jesus’ payment for our sins, and all our sins past, present, and future are forgiven being washed away by Jesus’ blood so that we are again spiritually alive unto God as we were when we first came to life in the world being innocent. By this we also know that babies and others being innocent are at the first point of being physically alive also spiritually alive unto God and therefore being alive unto God, when they die, they are “safe under the blood” and go to be with God.)

John 3:5-7
“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. ”

“Born of” means “made alive by” in this context. So one must be made alive by the water and by the spirit. Jesus is making a comparison (or contrast) between “born of water” (physical birth) and “born of the spirit” (spiritual birth - salvation) He makes the contrast very clear when He says right afterwards, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

When we are first brought to life in innocence, we are born of the flesh, and we are not born of the spirit until we are saved. We may be innocent at first, but we are still flesh and Paul says this of the flesh…

Romans 7:17-19
“Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.”

The “spark of good” (as some might call it) that man is given of God is a conscience and is not enough to make man “inherently good”… A conscience is not much more than knowing right from wrong… Although it can be trained by society, by our parents, by culture, and even by God’s Word in knowing right and wrong, it can also be trained to be evil or even be completely “shut off.”

An account of the Pharisees having an “attack of conscience” after speaking with Jesus…

These men at least knew some right from wrong: John 8:9
“And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.”

These have shut their conscience off: 1 Timothy 4:2
“Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;”

Because a man can have an “attack of conscience” does that mean he is “inherently good”? No, it means he is trained… and can also be trained in evil too sadly… Sadly we often follow the evil… we are born of flesh in which Paul said is no good thing… and that is the “natural man” as it is called in the New Testament. Why is it the “natural man”? It is because it is our *natural* side… the side that we *naturally* follow… the side which is also called I believe “the old man” which we must put to death so that we might live righteously by the power of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

Colossians 3:9
“Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;”

Bottom line and determining factor… If man were good, then man would seek God… but man does not seek God… at least not on his own. That is the catch… Man can seek God through the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and we must not say that the drawing power of the Holy Spirit’s conviction is man’s “inherently good nature” seeking after God because it is not man…. it is God! Man does not come to God on his own using some “inner goodness,” God seeks man and draws man to Himself by the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Even after man is saved, we can do nothing good on our own… all good we do, must be done in accordance with the will of God and done by dependence on the power of God. We can not “fan” some “inner good” of man until man becomes good. What we can do, is help witness and bring men to the true goodness which is (and who is) God!

John 6:44
“No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Romans 3:9-11, 23
“What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.”

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”

1 John 4:19
“We love him, because he first loved us.”

Leave a comment

You can use these tags : <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>