Tom Delay Questions the Patriotism of Protestors
Yep. And what’s more is, I think he might be right. Not in all cases, but in some. Here it is on Huffington (though with a clear attempt to discredit Delay.)
Some people have honest problems with the war. They are reasonable about it. And they do not call the President Hitler because of it. These I can handle. These are not the ones whose patriotism I question. But those who burn the flag and such things, they are the traitors. There was a time in this country that government secrets about war were not handed out by the media like attendance prizes. No more. There was a time when flag-burners were treated with contempt. No more. No more do we have people who volunteer by the thousands. No more are troops treated with respect by some who do not agree with the war. Rather, college kids who hide behind those troops and then stab them in the back are treated respectfully. They are just expressing their views.
They are traitors. They hate this country and would like nothing better than to see it fail.
That goes for politicians who can only succeed if the war fails as well. They do not care what happens to America. They only care that they get more money and more power. What will happen if one of these hypocrites gains the most powerful position in the world next year? They will surrender. Watch and see how long it takes terrorism to return to American soil. If you think it can’t happen, you’ll be surprised.
Mind you, this is not all who disagree with the war. Just those who disagree with America. They ought to try out one of the Islamic nations they seem to love so much.
Nice rant. Can I get an “amen?”
Heh, I love that. He answered my question. It’s time for a battle of the trackbacks. Thanks for bringing my attention to this.
Psycheout
March 19, 2007 at 10:05 pm
[...] 3: Thanks to Wit or Wisdom, I have my answer. Can we question their patriotism? Tom Delay says [...]
Anti-war Protestors Burn American Flag « Blogs 4 Brownback
March 19, 2007 at 10:13 pm
[...] 20th, 2007 witorwisdom tackles the HuffingtonPost with his own… post on protesters: They are traitors. They hate this country and would like nothing better than to see [...]
Traitor-Speak: Whoa There, Conservaboy! « Fitness for the Occasion
March 19, 2007 at 10:34 pm
Please don’t use that corrupt politicians thing, too many people do that. The liberals say that Bush is in there for oil, and the conservatives with this thing. Anyway, is there anything truly wrong with a withdrawal from Iraq?
The only way we’ll ever get Iraq stable is if we can get the Iraqi gov’t and police force to help govern itself which would be nearly impossible if they keep using American forces as a crutch (sp?). Also, if we withdraw from Iraq, the terrorists would not be stupid enough to attack America again, we have shown them that we will fight back. This situation was the same one that Russia and America were in during the Cold War. The terrorists only fight back in Iraq so hard because the world is divided in iraq. Even American opinion is sharply divided. However in Afghanistan, almost the entire world beleived that it was justified and a united world is not what the terrorists want to fight. They attacked on Sept. 11 because of the near lack of a large military response of attack on the USS Coal incident. America fought back with missile launches into Afghan territory however no full scale invasion was launched.
Also for the last bit, the right to free speach is part of the constitution. This means that it is impossible to abolish it. Also, to go as far as to call them traitors, that’s just wrong. Is it truly that wrong for them to follow what would help America rather than what the president wants, and contrary to popular belief, they’re not the same
p.s. you do realize that you’re supposed to burn your flag after you finish using it to dispose of it.
ts31
March 19, 2007 at 10:46 pm
The irony is that while they may well be traitors, the Bill of Rights was created with those in mind. Society needs to be careful not just to endorse and accept the views that it agrees with, but those that it hates.
There is such an irony in that, but it rings true, but I still don’t like them too much!
avoiceofreason
March 19, 2007 at 11:19 pm
[...] a man dies only once, but in politics many times.? No one who enters public office is surprised by.Tom Delay Questions the Patriotism of Protestors Here it is on Huffington (though with a clear attempt to discredit Delay.) Some people have honest [...]
Tom Delay » Tom Delay March 20, 2007 2:17 am
March 20, 2007 at 12:18 am
You nailed it. It is bizarre that those who cave in to the Islamists the most are the first ones on the literal chopping block. The radical Left holds their protectors and defenders in contempt. Pathetic.
Neil
March 20, 2007 at 6:20 am
ts31, there is a difference between respectfully disposing of the flag by burning in an isolated container and making a public display of contempt for the flag.
avor, the question, where do you draw the line? What level of treason constitutes going beyond protections granted by the Bill of Rights and stepping into criminal conduct? I think we can agree that sharing military secrets falls under that category.
To all: I did not say disagreement with the war was traitorous. I said that people who engage in treasonous activities towards America are the criminals. These must be punished. Allow me to quote myself:
thelonedrifter
March 20, 2007 at 9:14 am
Are you sure about that? How is demonstrating that we are willing to turn tail and run, to surrender, to admit defeat against the terrorist scum in Iraq going to teach the Islamofascists a lesson?
You may be right. It will teach them that they can attack us with impunity. That America is weak. Militant Islam does not respect weakness. Weakness is something to be despised and attacked.
Otherwise, nice strategy.
I’m glad that thelonedrifter addressed the proper way to dispose of a flag. Hint: burning one at a protest is not a respectful way to retire a flag. Nice try though.
Psycheout
March 20, 2007 at 11:42 am
The point still stands, firmly, that all forms of dissent are protected speech. Such is the nature of our country and our rights, as voice notes.
You are free to call such people traitors, just recognize that calling someone a “person who commits treason” for expressing their political viewpoint goes against everything this country stands for.
fitnessfortheoccasion
March 20, 2007 at 12:16 pm
Still clutching pearls, ffto? Look, you should recognize that labelling something somebody said when they were expressing their political viewpoint as going against everything this country stands for…goes against everything this country stands for.
Now knock it off. You’re making me dizzy with these circular arguments. Sound and fury signifying nothing, just like the anti-war idiotarians who burn the American flag at protest rallies.
I am so through with this discussion. It attracts intentionally obtuse obfuscators who only seem to want to argue about nonsense. I’ve got more important things to do, like outlawing liberalism. Hahaha. That was a joke.
Psycheout
March 20, 2007 at 1:08 pm
There is nothing circular about my logic, nor anything of fear in my arguments.
I think you are making yourself dizzy.
Sound and fury can signify a lot. Whether it is a group of ex-Iraqis railing against a dictator to make a case for war, or leftists here yelling that strike first is unethical. The fury comes from very real grievances, on all sides. Anger has a real place in politics. Directing that anger at a symbol is a natural response. I don’t think it is always an effective response (eg burning the flag at an anti-war protest).
fitnessfortheoccasion
March 20, 2007 at 5:24 pm
DId you read that Psyche? I said that they won’t fight a UNIFIED America. They wouldn’t do that note Afghanistan, we’ve only have several hundred deaths, and we had massive international support. Notce? 3k deaths vs. several hundred deaths. As I said, they won’t do that. Not to mention, if we stay there we WILL be THAT weak. We wouldn’t be able to do anything. By leaving, the resources of America will still be intact. If we stay in there, our national treasury will be depleted and we will no longer be able to carry out the war or help the poeple within our own borders.
As for drifter, where do I draw the line? well, they aren’t hurting anyone are they? I draw th eline at when someone is getting hurt. Also this is treason:
The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence is punished with death. By the same article of the Constitution, no person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.
–b–
http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/t103.htm
Now how is burning a flag as protest a war against America, and it doesn’t give aid to the enemy nor comfort. (comfort meant by like housing them and stuff like that) Also, if it was truly supposed to be that meaning, why is there a clause of the constitution giving soldiers the right to not follow their orders if they think that the war is injust?
And come on, there was tremendous proof that many people within the government itself had outed CIA agent Valerie Plame. This should cause indictments of many people within of the government. So, once this happens I may change my view, but for now, they stay.
ts31
March 20, 2007 at 5:29 pm
You think burning the flag and decrying the policy and actions of the United States in a time of war isn’t giving aid and comfort to our enemies? How naive you are, my friend. How naive you are.
Valerie Plame was a Langley desk jockey everybody knew worked at the CIA including the Who’s-Who who got her husband Joe “the liar” a plum job to sip tea and bash bush. She outed herself. And he lied his rear end off. I say throw the book at her and her husband, Joe Plame-Wilson.
Psycheout
March 20, 2007 at 6:17 pm
She also bashed Bush. I have no confirmation that she’s “that way.” Sorry for the confusion.
Psycheout
March 20, 2007 at 6:18 pm
Psyche
….You do realize that if you try to invoke it that way, you can just about ban everything. And according to that, you believe that we shouldn’t allow people to talk out against the war? again that defeats the whole purpopse of the first amendment. Also, if opposing military operations was such “treason” why did the Republican held Congress scream about the President’s firing of missiles against Afghan targets during the Clinton administration. (And no bashing Clinton here, I know you hate him, but this isn’t about him)
Also, you have got to be kidding me. Seriously, she was undercover without the government’s backing meaning she could have been killed if anyone found out about her. Yeah I’m pretty sure I would give away information that could kill me.
ts31
March 20, 2007 at 6:31 pm
One area with regard to treason that I agree needs to be enforced are those who call for the death of the President of the United States. It was improper and treasonous of those who did so when President Clinton was our nation’s elected Chief Executive and is the same today when President Bush is the nations elected Chief Executive. This “is” criminal and not free speech. These people should be prosecuted. Perhaps the law has changed and I was asleep at the wheel.
avoiceofreason
March 20, 2007 at 10:29 pm
ts31, you really need to learn a couple of things. First of all, don’t introduce diversionary stuff in the comments of my blog. Valerie Plame has nothing to do with this. Any future comments referencing her will not be approved by the supreme law and order of this blog.
Secondly, you need to rethink what giving aid and comfort to the enemy means. Do you remember all that talk about John Kerry? How he won a medal and then went about disparaging the U.S. and desecrating symbols of heroism and lying about battlefield activities? It was later revealed by both Vietnamese and Americans that his words were used in torture of American troops. To say that is not giving aid and comfort to the enemy and conspiring against American soldiers is ridiculous and childish. Flag-burning and revealing American secrets fall under that category.
Finally, you need to spend less time paying attention to the mainstream media. If you don’t pay attention to it, well, I don’t know where you hear this stuff, because you sound like a megaphone for them.
thelonedrifter
March 20, 2007 at 11:14 pm
ts31, I deleted the last comment of yours. No one can say I didn’t warn you, but you still mentioned Valerie Plame. But since you insist on pushing this me to the limit, here is a Fox News story on this. http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Mar16/0,4670,CIALeakCongress,00.html
Here is a quote from that article, which shows that Plame was never put in danger and those who “outed” her (there is great question as to whether it was anybody in the government) did not commit treason.
In case you need me to translate for you, she was not covert.
thelonedrifter
March 21, 2007 at 9:23 am
thelonedrifter
First of all you can’t go deleting everything you THINK doesn’t have anything to do with it. The Valerie Plame case does have something to do with it. Her identity was a military secret which was leaked out, thus this is TREASON. You supported this movement made by the administration. However, the burning of the flags, you say is treason and they should be attacked. How does this make sense? It’s almost as if you were picking and choosing what you want to call treason.
about the Valerie Plame case.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060918/corn
You can find websites, and I can too.
I read your website, now, shouldn’t you read mine?
ts31
March 21, 2007 at 5:06 pm
ts31, I read it. I also noticed that it’s by the Nation. Do you know what The Nation represents? It’s a far-out, left-wing, biased paper. Many do not consider it to be a credible news source. Fox news, by contrast, has millions of viewers every night. Also, it’s quite well known that Plame has lied about things in the past. And what you don’t seem to realize is that no one in the government has been convicted for outing Plame. The only person to be convicted of anything is Libby for perjury. (lying in court, for lower-level brains) Do yourself a favor and listen to what really happened, not to what some liberal newspaper is telling you.
thelonedrifter
March 21, 2007 at 5:20 pm
The Nation is ts31’s website? I thought it belonged to Katrina vanden Kook. She’s so far left she fell off the political spectrum. Nice “news” source you got there, dude.
Psycheout
March 21, 2007 at 5:48 pm
Do you know what Fox is? It is by far the most conservative mews center out there. Here we go again, questioning each other’s sources. odd isn’t it? Fine here’s another link
http://www.nndb.com/people/634/000024562/
How about you do yourself a favor and stop quoting Fox, many more “far-out, left-wing, biased” people will take you slightly more seriously.
ts31
March 21, 2007 at 7:09 pm
ts31, the only reason I put that last comment up is so that you can broadcast how little you know to the world. You clearly don’t have a clue.
Are you calling Alan Colmes conservative? What about Greta van Susteran?
By the way, I’m not really relying on Fox for this. I’m relying on the fact that they can’t seem to convict anyone in court, despite having liberal prosecutors, for this supposed “outing.” I just put two and two together, like any reasonable person.
Are you trying to play devil’s advocate? Because I’m having a hard time believing how anybody who is a friend of munchkin’s and goes to the same school as munchkin does is actually this ignorant. I’ve tried not to insult you, but you are being quite childish.
thelonedrifter
March 21, 2007 at 7:58 pm
First of all, do you leave this little bubble of yours? yes, Fox is very very very conservative. Alan Colmes is more like an ultra-centrist liberal. And I never said the the Nation wasn’t liberal, you can agree with me on that as well. I’m just saying that Fox is extremely conservative. And I have a hard time to believe that someone who beleives they research everything can’t realize this fact. Also, since you just love to attack the democrats in your posts, Il’l do it. Do you honestly think that a White House that had expressed happiness when The former FEMA director took all the criticism wouoldn’t help their own people in the white house? Tell me, would they? And as for ignorance, I’ve read stuff on about everything. So when I talk about stuff I know what I’m talking about. And do you want more proof?
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/09/30/wilson.cia/
“But sources told CNN that Novak was among as many as six journalists who were told Plame’s name. The Washington Post reported Sunday that the disclosure came from two top administration officials.
Novak said a confidential source at the CIA told him Plame was “an analyst, not a spy, not a covert operative and not in charge of undercover operatives.”"
So, why is it that you never leave your bubble? That you only go on sites with a ultra-conservative view? If you think you are so right why don’t you convert the world? No matter what you say to me, or whatever I say myself, you will remain you, and I will remain me.I don’t have to play the devil’s advocate, all I have to do is wait, because as you said yourself, the side that is correct will win eventually.
ts31
March 21, 2007 at 8:28 pm
shoot, delete the first one, I thought there was a glitch so I re-sent it (of those two)
ts31
March 21, 2007 at 9:01 pm
ho. hum. You don’t make any sense. I told you we were not discussing Plame, and you kept going.
Yeah, I’m a conservative, and a biased one, I’ll admit. But I’m proud of it. Yup, I get pleasure from bashing democrats. Should I? Not always. You seem to get pleasure from bashing me. If so, go ahead. I’m done. You do not understand of what you speak. In my book, you don’t take liberal sources that contradict the courts and say that the “sources” are correct.
I see more sides than you do, clearly. You are enamored with being something, with proving yourself. I have nothing to prove. I have stated my case. You said yourself that I am right. So why are you acting like this?
This has degenerated into exactly what I do not want this blog to be. Namecalling. Ignorant debate with ad hominem. I do not appreciate it when people sucker me into doing that. You have done it. Don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back.
Many would call you a troll. You probably don’t know what that is. Go look it up.
By the way, CNN is hardly unbiased. If you think Alan Colmes is a centrist, then I shudder to think what you believe about Michael Moore. Did you know that CBS, a supposedly credible source, lied to try and get the president impeached or at least not re-elected. And did you know that CNN repeated a profoundly false rumor that the Kuran had been flushed down a toilet at Guantanamo Bay? And people died because of that indiscretion?
I regret this, but you are going to have to come up with something pretty good to keep me from banning you. I considered closing this thread. But I will leave it open in the hopes that you can demonstrate a bit more intelligence than you have so far.
I would like to think that I could get along with munchkin’s other friends. But maybe I can’t.
thelonedrifter
March 21, 2007 at 9:12 pm
umm… confusion reigns. I deleted one of your posts on accident. Sorry. (sheepish grin)
thelonedrifter
March 21, 2007 at 9:14 pm
Again, I could have sworn I have made it clear, Valerie Plame had something to do with the topic. If it is true that whe was outed, that would be treason, and you called the flag burners traitors. See the connection? please say yes. . By the way, I beleive that Michael Moore is extremely liberal biased. I never deny these things.
Anyway, you started calling me names, and I didn’t do anything but say stuff. I’m only “deviating”. Which was your first charge. Afterwards, when I told you how they connect, you called my childish. Please tell me, HOW DOES THAT WORK!?!?!?! Anyway, I only bashed you when you bashed me first. If you look back, I made sure to censor stuff that would insult you before that.
Also you’re insulting my intelligence. You’re telling me not to attack you, yet to take the initiative. Again, how is it fair?
By the way, did you know that Fox kept showing a news report of Barrack Obama went to a Muslim school. They also kept showing the news report about the John Kerry incident. They kept showing it days after the other major media centers stopped.
Don’t worry about munchkin, we get along as friends, but friends don’t have to agree on politics now do they? =P
ts31
March 21, 2007 at 9:39 pm
“I’m having a hard time believing how anybody who is a friend of munchkin’s and goes to the same school as munchkin does is actually this ignorant.”
Should I take that as a compliment? o_O Then again, how do you explain me being friends with you? ;P
munchkin
March 21, 2007 at 10:35 pm
Also, why do you automatically assume that all my friends are super nerds? O_O Just because most of them are… hehehe. No matter.
And, sir, you’re getting kinda mean right now.
“I’ve tried not to insult you, but you are being quite childish.”
You’re not trying hard enough.
Trust me, you don’t want to insult him.
munchkin
March 21, 2007 at 10:39 pm
ts31, I owe you an apology. I have not been totally fair or uninsulting to you. I still think you are wrong. However, I am sorry, and ask your forgiveness.
But… (there always must be a but)
FOX didn’t lie about those things. They just reported them. I have dealt with what I think about flag-burning and answered your claims. We will have to agree to disagree on that one. You are still wrong, but I’ll let it go.
I only say: back it up with the Constitution, the law, but above all, the Bible, and you’ll be in good shape.
munchkin, I am sorry if I have offended you. You should know my manner can be a bit loud sometimes. But I’m not assuming all your friends are super-nerds, because that would place me in the category, and I am not that.
thelonedrifter
March 21, 2007 at 11:30 pm
…. I didn’t say Fox lied i just said that they reported it longer, but yeah, this ends up a stalemate, and it doesn’t matter, but my other post hasn’t gone up yet, and it’s been like an hour later. (actually exactly an hour, what a coincidence) anyway, It’s weird, it’s not showing =(. And ok, sure, you think I’m wong I think you’re wrong, all we did was waste hw time =P. yeah, and I did back my stuff up. T’was fun though, But I’m still pissed that my old post didn’t go up, did you block me earlier?
“It’s harder to pick the pieces back up, than it is to keep them together in the first place”
–(Again I forgot who =P)
ts31
March 21, 2007 at 11:42 pm
It’s up. I had a struggle trying to decide whether or not to post it. But I did.
Can’t say I’m a cruel, oppresive dictator, anyhow.
thelonedrifter
March 21, 2007 at 11:45 pm
Ha, But I can, or at least I will be once I rule the world, or if….. But i”m hoping that it’ll be a once. =) (Ask munchkin, she’ll say that this would happen if I actually did rule the world =D)
ts31
March 21, 2007 at 11:48 pm
oh, humbug. I wasn’t insulted. Not in the least. ;P
And please.. don’t ask me about that. >.
munchkin
March 22, 2007 at 10:25 pm